Q: Sir is it correct to say God raises some people in order to destroy them? Using Pharaoh, Judas Iscariot etc as examples.
A: What do you think the scriptures say?
Q: From scriptures, I believe that God is a Good God and does things for very good reasons.
The reason I am asking is because I have a colleague who holds this view.
A: Our definition of good and God’s own are not on the same level. Neither is our idea of justice, Judgement and righteousness.
We think we understand these things but it’s obvious to me that we know only in part and go as far as that part can take us and still amount to glory to God, cos none of us with our various major revelations can fully apply what we know God showed us without hitting some areas where it seems what we know is not enough.
The examples of Judas and Pharaoh are mentioned in scriptures and there is no equivocation about why God allowed them to come to limelight the way they did.
A: God is not squeamish about who He is and what He does in the process of being God, we are the ones who think if God should kill a person or a whole nation, God must be bad because killing is bad.
By the way, our concept of death invokes a subtle or severe sense of finality and evil depending on whether we truly believe in the afterlife or not… and truly, many Christians think they do but most of us really don’t… we are so afraid to die! Not that I want to die but I am not afraid of death because of what is on the other side. I have faced death and so I know what I am talking about.
Whereas for God, what we call death would probably sound like relocation or rustication from school or something like that cos God is looking and seeing the people we call dead just as clearly as He sees us.
Q: True Sir
A: Even if I don’t have scriptures to show you, look at the end of eeeeeeverything. The eternal end of everything called human existence involves what God calls death… the real death, from which there is no resurrection, nor reprieve, nor parole, nor review. The Bible says the smoke of their destruction rises up before God forever and ever.
A: Yet God is going to send countless people into that lake of fire.
There are 7.2 billion people alive today as at my last information and people who claim to be Christians are only 1.2 billion. Out of these, a subset are heaven recognized Saints and the rest are just associates or fans who will get nothing out of it.
When Jesus said the way to heaven is narrow, he didn’t stop there, he said there are few that find it. So think of the the less than 1.2 billion Saints out of 7.2 billion and think how many will be sent to eternal damnation by our good God.
And that’s just speaking of the people alive today. Factor in all of mankind from Adam till date, and possibly tomorrow. Imagine how many people will be sent into the flames at the end.
And yet God is good.
Q: Hmmm na wah oo
Like my colleague said one time… from his statement… what he was inferring was that if God wants a person saved, it will happen but if not, he won’t.Then He mentioned in scriptures where God said “I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy”.
But sir those who end up in hell, will that be the fault of God, knowing fully well about the gift of salvation? Because, the same God who will eventually send some to hell still sent his son to die. Or like my colleague, can we then say that God will refuse some from being saved?
A: Some of the parables of Jesus (Matthew 13: 24-30, 36-43) indicate that God is well aware of who is the Saint and who is the Sinner but yet he said the sinner should not be cut down as an act of judgement too soon for fear of corrupting the Saints. No.
He said, leave them all to grow up together then when the harvest is ready… Oh boy! I’m catching some light here… when the harvest is ready, not when He is tired of the weeds, not when He sees the weeds almost choking the life out of the crop, no. It’s when the harvest itself is ready. When the crop has matured. Then it will be judgement time. The church of Jesus, the real church of Jesus, the crop, the expected harvest, is the one that will indicate when it is time for judgement. Of course, God knows that time, He knows all, but you can tell when it’s going to happen when the church is ready to be harvested. And only God knows exactly what the ready-for-harvest body of Christ looks like. He is the husbandman of the vineyard. He knows.
He also knows that the church cannot be destroyed by the evil around her. The evil may look and feel stronger, running wild all over the place, which is expected because they are weeds, the church will remain incorruptible. Which means, staying away from corruption is a major deal with God, hence he made us incorruptible, righteous by faith in Jesus.
Q: Wow… I just caught the light you shared too… “when the harvest is ready” (the Church!) Wow…
A: So back to your point, God does allow the evil guys to come up. He still waters the vineyard, He still manures it but not really for the sake of the bad but for the sake of the crop. Why? Because he is gracious and allows his sun and rain to come upon the wicked and the righteous, Jesus says. (Matthew 5:45)
It’s not because of political correctness, no. It is because He would rather spend more sun and more rain, more resources on the whole vineyard so that his crop can be well fed, than under-serve His church because He wants to punish the evil in a hurry.
Q: So I guess it will be proper to say the Church determines his return.
Hmm true words sir.
A: Yes sir. We are what he is waiting for… Although he knows that time already because He knows all, yet He is patiently waiting for us to experience what He already knows.
Q: Sir, with your permission, can I paste this conversation on [the fellowship] forum?
A: Feel free
Thank you so much sir, am so loving this chat.
A: Do you think God didn’t know that his Angels of light would turn against him and therefore become Princes of darkness?
Q: Hmmm.. it beats my imagination sometimes
A: Our chinkele (tiny) collective imagination cannot even nearly comprehend what or who God is in a million lifetimes.
Imagine how long man has been on earth and we are still TRYING to understand God, whereas the guy has finished all He will ever say and was able to put it into a book. Everything He says now is an explanation or just plain repetition of what is already written.
Q: Hmmm… My God, My God…
A: Imagine we have an exam called life, where we are required to answer just one question, and we have the textbook available and yet we are still confused on what the answer is.
That is difficult expo.
A: God knew Lucifer would become the devil yet God spared no expense at creating him. He knew Adam would fail him yet He did not change His mind about making man a spitting image of Himself.
He gave Lucifer the most noble of roles. Knowing what he would do with it. He promoted the angel though He knew the guy would fall.
Then he went ahead and made man with absolute power and authority on earth. Put the tree of eternal life within reach for the guy knowing…. KNOWING what would happen.
A: So, my answer is no be today.
Sir if I may… doesn’t this imply his sovereignty?
A: Sovereignty is what makes God unchallengeable in his decisions. It is not about his imposition. Forget that matter. You cannot make a car and then the car will tell you how it will function or query you as to why you made it an SUV and not a sports car.
It is his sovereignty that gives him the right to make Angels and rule over them, make man and demand that man worship him.
However, as it is clear to me, his sovereignty does not include infringement on your ability to choose. If it was, Lucifer would not have fallen as God knew He would. Neither would man.
Q: Sir! I think at this point, I truely am grateful to God for saving me.
Thank you sir.
A: You check. If you start your car and you take off the brakes and the car starts rolling forwards, won’t you grab the wheels and turn it away if the car is rolling towards a ditch? Cos you know it is rolling towards a ditch, you will jump in and take the wheels.
Q: Hmmm… dat na true matter oo
A: But God set us in motion and stepped outside to watch us. Many of us have headed to the ditches with speed as if that’s what we were made to do.
Q: But that isn’t his fault naa, abi?
A: Those of us who caught the glimpse of God standing on the road of our lives sticking out His thumb trying to hitch a ride and decided to let Him in have made a good decision. But the smart choice would be to say, “Jesus, take the wheels”
Q: Yes Sir. True
A: The submission of our free will to God is one of the greatest gifts, from my view, that we can give to God. It is an offering beyond compare. Romans 12:1-2.
A: Believe me, being married, I know what deliberate submission feels like.
When a woman, who knows she is equal to you in every way and can stand her ground toe to toe with you should the need arise, deliberately submits to you and allows you take charge of her… I can’t think of anything more dignifying of my masculine ego than that. But it was a deliberate action she took out of available options.
Now, around her, I feel like a king. She treats me like one and so I will go to war for her, even without her asking me to. I will fight for her, I will decorate her with anything I can lay my hands on. When I am in the market, I look out for stuff that I can get for her and actually forget about getting myself stuff. Why? Because she chose me.
Q: Wonderful… am so loving this chat.
A: Isn’t this the same thing between us and God? Is it not our willing submission to Him that makes Him King of our lives? Is it not our choice to live for Him that brings Him glory?
Is it not why God will ever go ahead of us and live for us, and even died for us because we CHOSE Him?
Q: So, our relationship with God is like husband and wife relationship?
A: Yes sir.
Eph 5:22-32 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Ooh battery ooo. My battery is out sir
Old age is affecting my phone.
I must confess, this has been one chat I will cherish sooooo much. But sir e never finish ooo, we go chat am more ooo… Amen sir! Thank you sooo much you have blessed me.
A: No worry. I speak to a good phone, to make its way into your possession right now into Jesus’ name.
Let me know when the phone arrives.
Q: I sure will
A: So. Here is the rub. God knows those who will choose him and those who won’t, yet he created all of us side by side giving us the same free will and same opportunity to choose Him. For the joy of being chosen by a relative few, God set Himself up to be rejected again and again and again by the vast majority.
He put laws of success and increase in place and the laws respond to Sinner and Saint alike. And now that the world is messed up by sin, things favour the sinner more than the Saint and grant them speed…. celebrating them as they zoom past us.
A: But it’s a flash burn in a pan.
It’s like comparing the destructive power of a drop of petrol and that of a whole oil reserve. They seem to fly ahead, but the reason they are flying quickly is because there is no weight in them.
Read Psalm 73 and see. You and I are not the first to wonder how come things are this way. Fortunately, the answer has also always been there.
God does not stop anyone from prospering, though… Prov 13:22 A good [man] leaveth an inheritance to his children’s children: and the wealth of the sinner [is] laid up for the just.
He will honour the activation of the laws of increase by anyone, whether Pharaoh or Judas. But because they did not choose Him, it can’t last long in their hands cos what they got is corrupted. The only de-corrupter is the antivirus of heaven called the word of God. It has never needed renewal nor updating. And if you don’t have it, no matter how high you go, you will come crashing down.
Now knowing those who would choose him from before the foundation of the world, and those who would not, God set His plan in motion to glorify Himself in the lives of His own and to be glorified “over” the ones who reject him. And so when God needed a damning job to be done such as enslave His people or betray Jesus, He chose to use someone who was not amongst the ones who would choose him. And in truth, it is not betraying Jesus that condemned Judas but it was his refusal to repent and return to accept Jesus.
So, yes, God gives room for people to rise and fall. He sets them up for their ultimate destruction. But he doesn’t predetermine someone to accept Jesus or not. He knows in advance who will and who won’t and makes plans for each but He doesn’t “predestinate” anyone to be sinner or Saint.
Rom 8:29-30 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
God foreknew our choices, He did not pre-make those choices for us but he predestinated what those choices will result in.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
When inviting people to a race. The only thing you can predetermine is what the prizes would be. You don’t predetermine who wins.
The only difference here is God already knows who wins in the race of life and He sovereignly went ahead to predetermine that the star prize would be a total make over that would make every winner be an exact copy of Jesus. This shouldn’t be so hard to imagine when we realise that an exact copy of God was what God made in the beginning and called it man.
In closing, I am not going to ever apologize about the fact that God can kill or destroy a man, a people, a planet when He himself said of Himself
Deut 32:39 See now that I, [even] I, [am] he, and [there is] no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither [is there any] that can deliver out of my hand.
Isa 43:3 For I [am] the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt [for] thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
Isa 43:4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.
And it’s not just an old testament thing either.
2Cor 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men.
Although I know that He does all He does righteously as God, yet Jesus speaking to us didn’t say we should try to defend God’s image and portray Him as a hardcore pacifist or a groupie who is bent on getting every one to like Him or some sort of Mr Nice Guy who is soooooooo good that He can’t hurt a fly. No.
Jesus said “Fear Him”
Mt 10:28… rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
God loves me, sir, and for that I love Him in return … and I fear Him.